Fostering Fellowship In Recovery
The journey to recovery initially seems hard, but a big part of that is because people tend to think they’re on their own. That doesn’t have to be the case. There is power in community, and fellowship does wonders for recovery. In this episode of Serenity Sit Down, hosted by Father Jim, we sit down with Jake Klisivitch, the Men's Program Coordinator at The Retreat in Wayzata, Minnesota. Jake shares his personal journey to sobriety and details the unique, spiritually-focused approach of The Retreat, which emphasizes the principles of the 12-step program over clinical methods. He discusses the daily structure and supportive community environment that aids guests in their recovery, as well as the vibrant alumni network that extends the program's reach beyond the facility. Tune in to learn more about how The Retreat helps individuals find hope and joy in their sobriety journey.
---
Listen to the podcast here
Fostering Fellowship In Recovery
Thank you for being here. Welcome to our show presented by The Retreat in Wayzata, Minnesota. We are talking with Jake Klisivitch. Jake is the Men’s Program Coordinator here at The Retreat out in Wayzata, Minnesota. The reason why we’re here is to talk a little bit about the program at The Retreat, what they do in the recovery homes, and what they do distinctly different here at The Retreat if I may ask that question.
‐‐‐
What do they do uniquely different here at The Retreat?
My only experience as a guest at a facility like this was at The Retreat. It feels, to me, having worked here for, eleven years since I got sober, that what we do is the norm. With learning what I have about what happens out there, what happens in most clinical facilities, etc., what we do differently is that we put an emphasis on the spiritual side of recovery. The biopsychosocial side, the meds, the doctors, the nurses, counselors, and group sessions, that’s not what’s happening here.
Before I became the men’s program coordinator and started running the men’s center, I worked in the men’s office for seven years. My job was to answer the phone and talk about this. People would ask “What’s different about you?” One of the answers I gave, and I’m not sure if this would make my boss, John, happy or not, is it’s a 30-day AA meeting. It’s a deep dive into the spirituality of the twelve steps.
Clinical programs deal a lot with the problem of alcoholism. From what I know about them, they spend a lot of time talking about what’s going on in the body and what’s going on in the brain. We deal with the solution. The men and women who come here have identified as alcoholics or addicts and they want to get better from it. That makes for a pretty enthusiastic community who are looking for a solution. The solution, at least the one that has worked for the people who work at the retreat, is the twelve-step solution.
We’re not the ones that necessarily transmit it. They do have sessions with staff throughout the week. What’s happening here is that about 400 volunteers are coming through The Retreat in a normal month to the men’s side and the women’s side from the local recovery community to talk to the men and women about how they recovered. The hope is that the men and women who are here see something that appeals to them much of what happens in an AA meeting. You see somebody who has what you want.
Their days here start with meditation early in the morning all the way through to later in the evening when they review their day with their small group. In between, they’re talking to a lot of people who’ve experienced sobriety and who know what they’re doing. They talk to old timers, new timers, and single speakers. They have group sessions. Meetings come every evening. What’s happening here is the magic of spiritual recovery.
From what I know about the history of treatment in the United States, this used to be less of a rarity, but we are abstinence-based. We believe that the solution to addiction, alcoholism, and substance use disorder as it’s called out there is to stop taking any narcotics or habit-forming meds. That’s not necessarily what’s happening out there. We exist as a tonic to the way the field is moving in that direction.
When you see people coming here or that look to come through the front door or into your program, why do they say they picked The Retreat?
What happens is they’ve heard about us from a friend who’s gone through here. They hear about us in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. Generally, in the majority of cases, they’ve heard from somebody who has good things to say about what happens here. A lot of what we get here is from professional references, like interventionists, people who work at hospitals, etc. We get talked about a lot, especially locally, in AA meetings because we’re so twelve-step oriented. Other times, they found us on the web.
It was a convent.
It was a private residence before that and then they deeded it to the Catholic church. It became a convent but also hireable as a retreat because we’re nestled in this strand of original Minnesota forest. I’ve had guests arrive here still coming down from whatever it was they’re addicted to. I had one younger man ask if this was Hogwarts. I’ve forgotten what the question was.
A Community Of Recovering People
How did The Retreat come to exist?
John Curtis, our founder, opened up The Retreat in Minnetrista. He and a group called The Community of Recovering People had bought an old mansion and opened up a twenty-bed code facility in a mansion west of here. Within very short order, they were full and were already looking for new property. In 2003, they found this space. The Catholic church had left it.
The only plans that were being bandied about were to raise this, including all the forest, and make it into condos and mini-malls, which is what happens on major streets. John made a presentation to the city council that made a lot of sense to people to the point where they raised some money through an assessment that helped us buy this property, a citywide assessment for Wayzata. Since then, we’ve had a very good relationship with the community. That speaks to how we help people get sober. It’s a community solution. The community comes in here to help our guests.
Fellowship In Recovery: The key to helping people get sober is basically a community solution.
That’s an essential aspect. People who have already been through a sense of recovery and are struggling through their good times and bad times in early recovery and long-term recovery are able to come in and talk to your guests. I love the conversation about how they’re not clients but they’re guests. Thank you. Can you expound on that a little bit?
Yeah. We’re not a lockdown facility. One of the most important principles of AA is the principle of willingness. We’re hoping that most of the men and women who are here want to be here, so we call them guests. In terms of the definition of patient, we’re not a clinical facility, so we don’t use clinical terms like that. I don’t refer to myself as a counselor. I’m the men’s program coordinator and I talk to all the guests on the men’s side at some point throughout their stay, but I’m another alcoholic who got sober here several years ago. What I do is share my story.
Can you share a little bit about that?
Sure. How did I make my way here?
Yeah. How did you make your way here?
It all started on Father’s Day of 2012 when I walked into my dad’s apartment on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, wished him Happy Father’s Day, and passed out. Three days later, he was at my apartment telling me I was going to Minnesota. I’d spent a lot of time drinking but telling myself that I could quit on Monday if I needed to. That Monday never got here.
By the time he told me that I was going to Minnesota, I was ready for it. I didn’t know what to expect. I was hoping to be put in a rubber room, put in a straight jacket, and given shots for 30 days until I was cured. When I found out I was going to a facility that only practiced the twelve steps, I thought I was doomed because I had some ancillary experience with AA, but I stood at the back wondering how all these men talking was going to keep me sober.
When I got to the retreat, my first impulse was that I wanted to learn how to drink like normal people. I then realized I was probably going to have to stop this. There’s something about the community here that works on men who have doubts about what they’re doing here. That’s what happened to me. I came in convinced I was special, but eventually, I didn’t get truly sober until I realized I was another garden-variety drunk. That’s what happened here. That’s the beauty of seeing so many men come through here, some early in sobriety and some later in sobriety. One of our speakers who was here celebrated 60 years.
To hear from all the different levels of experience about what’s required, how it works, and what happens was extremely helpful to me. Before that Father’s Day, I honestly didn’t see a way out. I didn’t understand how it was that I could ever stop drinking. I thought a miracle cure might help me. That’s why I thought being given shots for 30 days would take care of it. If somebody had told me that the solution was in me, I would’ve said, “There’s no way.”
Let’s talk about that for a bit. The solution is within us.
The solution is within us.
I remember doing my 4th and 5th steps here where we do an inventory of our fears and resentments and then we admit it to another person. It was the notion that life wasn’t being done to me. In the fifth step, when we see what our part is in every one of our resentments and what our part is in the fears that we have, I didn’t realize I had a part in everything that was taking place in my life. I thought I was a victim.
We have a part in everything that takes place in our lives.
That helped me see recovery as possible because it was not necessarily that I was in charge, but I was present. I’m part of what’s happening. I’m not somebody to whom alcoholism happened. That helped me. I still struggled when I got out of here, but I was able to wipe myself off and get back up on the horse because of what I learned at The Retreat.
That’s good. Is there anything else that goes on in your men’s program? How many do you have in the men’s program?
We have 41 beds. We have 25 men here. On a typical day, we start with meditation. They do chores in the morning, eat breakfast, and then there’s programming usually. They go through the big book on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday in the morning. They then eat lunch at noon. I don’t know if any other of your guests have talked about our kitchen staff of three wonderful chefs. Well,
Go right ahead. Nobody has talked about the kitchen staff.
We have 3 great chefs, 1 of whom, Kenny, has been here for almost 20 years. He was cooking when I was here several years ago. The best thing about them all is they’re competitive with each other because they really try to impress each other with various dishes. They do some great stuff. For a man coming in here who has been suffering from our disease for such a long time, many of whom have lost weight or aren’t feeling well, the food that they make is so nourishing. It’s not institutional in any way. That’s as planned.
Lunch is at noon. Dinners at 5:30. Between those two meals, they’ve got more programming. Outside speakers are coming in to talk about various topics. That’s everything from the notion of masculinity, codependency, and meditation. They get a break at 3:00. They get about two hours to themselves where they can do some of the work that we’re asking them to do. They also play board games. There are guitars, pianos, and that sort of thing. They have their dinner at 5:30.
Picking Up Habits
An AA meeting comes here every night at 7:30 from the surrounding area so they can see what AA meetings look like. They meet with their small group at around 9:00 to discuss their day. They’re doing the tenth step, which is a review of their day. The curfew is around midnight. It’s a full day. All of it is about picking up habits we didn’t have before because we didn’t have any habits before we got here aside from drinking or using. It’s about everything from making your bed in the morning to clearing your dishes in the evening to talking to other men about your sobriety and being open about being vulnerable.
I didn’t tell the truth about how much I was drinking to anyone before I got to The Retreat. In fact, I even lied in my intake interview because I thought I was drinking more than anyone had ever drunk in the history of the world. I thought that if I was honest when I called The Retreat, they would tell me to go to the psych ward and that I was unsavable. I was drinking about a liter a day. That’s an enormous amount, but it’s by no means a world record.
When I walked into The Retreat, on my first night, I walked into the dining room where there were a bunch of men playing board games and there were guys out on the porch having cigarettes and in the living room playing guitars. One guy who ended up being one of my best friends turned around and asked, “What’s your damage?” Meaning, “What do you use? How much do you use?” etc. I said, “I was drinking about a liter of vodka a day before I got here.”
I expected there to be a record scratch and everybody would quiet down and look at me. All he said was, “Try a handle,” and then went back to playing his game. Nobody gave a crap. I realized, “These are my people.” I didn’t know they existed. I didn’t know there was anybody out there who drank and used like I did and wanted to get better from it. That night, which was my first night here, was the beginning of my recovery.
That’s a great story. It’s yours. It’s your story. That’s great. Talk to me a little bit about the alumni here.
I spent sixteen months in a sober house in Saint Paul after I left The Retreat. At first, I did it on a lark. I have an apartment in New York. My plan was to get right back there. I also made a lot of good friends here. I was middle-aged. I was probably experiencing some kind of midlife crisis. I wanted to have an adventure. I worked freelance as a book editor. I thought I could do that from Saint Paul. I dove into that community and loved the meetings I was going to. I loved the activities. I remember describing Saint Paul and the Twin Cities as Disney World for recovering alcoholics and addicts. That’s what it is.
I didn’t move far from my sober house. My wife and I live in an apartment near where all our sober houses are. I see the guys at meetings. When guys get out of here and, and they do spread across the world, we tend to recommend how in terms of staying within a continuum of care or in terms of what staying at a sober house or doing more programming can mean to somebody’s chances at staying sober. We do tend to recommend sticking around and doing sober living for a little bit.
The Saint Paul community which has a lot of other facilities feeding into it is a wonderful place to be for our alumni. You can’t throw a rock without hitting a good meeting. There’s sober softball. There's sober hockey. There’s sober climbing. There’s sober pickleball. There was sober dodgeball for a while. I’m not sure how that’s going.
There are dances. There are events. There’s Gopher State, the big roundup on Memorial Day weekend. In the summer, there is a barbecue every Sunday at a different sober house that has a meeting attached to it and free food. The Retreat has what’s called The Retreat Breakfast every third Thursday of the month at the university club that everybody’s invited to. There’s lots of stuff happening out there.
We have been a little more aggressive in building out the alumni activities in other cities in the country that feed The Retreat like Des Moines and Chicago. Hopefully, that sort of thing will be happening elsewhere as well. My knowledge is fairly limited to how dynamic the Twin Cities scene is, but there are a lot of retreat guys in the meetings in the rooms out there.
The reason why I bring that up is because I do see that expanding. You can’t expand the awareness, the vision, or a twelve-step program like you do here in a unique way at The Retreat without telling people about it. Our whole idea is to trust God, clean house, and more importantly, help others. We help others and we get a better idea of our sobriety and how we can have greater joy amidst the community. Is there anything else that you could offer me on this day?
For a lot of the men and women who come in here, what you said about finding joy, a lot of us think that that’s close to us. I remember being terrified of what life was going to be like on the other side. I assumed that my best life was led while I was full of vodka. I thought that once I got sober, even though I needed to do it for health reasons, it was going to be gray, boring, and awful and I would be gray, boring, and awful. The Retreat showed me that that wasn’t true. The community out there gave me a chance to show it to others. That’s the beauty of this whole program. Hopefully, the tentacles will be reaching out to Illinois and our surrounding states because that strong alumni movement can mean a lot.
Fellowship In Recovery: I remember being terrified of what life was going to be like on the other side, that it was going to be gray, boring, and awful. The Retreat showed me that that wasn't true, and the community out there gave me a chance to show that to others.
I do believe that also. Thank you very much. Thank you for being here.
Thank you.
This is Jake. Jake’s the Men’s Program Coordinator here at The Retreat in Wayzata. If you or a loved one is struggling with addiction or mental health issues, there is hope. The Retreat can help. For more information, visit www.TheRetreat.org or you’re welcome to call 952-476-0566. Go to www.TheRetreat.org. Thank you for being here.
Thank you.
This is the show presented by The Retreat in Wayzata, Minnesota. Have a great, wonderful, and joyful day.
